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 Landmark 3 Témoignages

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Jean Langlois
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Nombre de messages : 24237
Date d'inscription : 15/07/2006

MessageSujet: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:19

Citation :
Landmark Education by Andy Testa
by Andy Testa

STAY AWAY. An intense course that deconstructs personality and rebuilds it
around continued participation in the group. Anal-retentive non-stop
participation in seminars and advanced courses is sold HARD. Read on for
details.


I did the Forum around 1986. At that time, it cost $500 and took 4 1/2
days (two weekends, then a friday night). I got involved through a
roommate. He was very enthusiastic about how it could transform my
life, so I went with him to one of his weekly meetings. I was treated
to a room full of very white people in nice clothes, all very positive
and testifying as to how their lives had been changed by the Forum and
their current involvement. I was then taken to a separate room and
subjected to HEAVY sales pitches by about 5 staffers and volunteers.
My roommate was there, and offered to loan me the money, and I agreed as
I was a pretty wishy-washy sot back then. So of to the Forum I went.

The Forum attempts to deconstruct personal attachments in a non-abusive
manner by focussing your attention inward: The basis is being kept in a
hotel ballroom for 10 hour days with little sleep, listening to the same
thing over and over and over. Most of it consists of having people
look at their childhood, and find the events that caused them to make
decisions about other people, especially their parents. Unlike Co$,
this usually results in a CLOSER relationship with the parents. Once
everyone has been reduced to tears through the constant confessions
of the participants, the Forum leader builds everyone back up by directing
their attention on using the Forum philosophy (still called a technology!)
to better their relationships and self esteem.

Sounds good, eh? well, the strict discipline is still there. You can't
go to the bathroom when you want, you take meals in groups, there are strict
rules about talking and conduct, and the leader won't hesitate to shame
you into compliance. Much of it is psychology parlor tricks, like
making a headache go away by imagining it as a physical void in your head,
and imagining it being filled. This goes on for four full days. The last
1/2 day is sales night. This night, all the participants are told to bring
friends and relatives. The focus of the evening is on sales: signing up
your relatives for the Forum, and signing YOU up for advanced classes.

Oops! What advanced classes? nobody said anything about advanced classes!
Yes, you are again leaned on heavily by the staff to sign up for seminars.
Their goal is to have you ALWAYS enrolled in a class. ALWAYS.
They claim to transform you in the Forum, but the transformation only
lasts as long as you stay involved in the group. Now, when you've just
finished the Forum, you're feeling on top of the world, so you sign up and
testify for your family real hard. As well as participating in the
seminars and Forum, they also rely on volunteers. Part of your involvement
is to volunteer to help put on the seminars and Forum. In fact, most of the
work is done by volunteers. There are very few paid staff.

I participated in several seminars and volunteered at seminars and a Forum.
I took part in a sales barrage on friends and family during a Forum
sales night. The approach is to not let people equivocate, not let them
leave without signing up. "How much is the rest of your life worth?" is
a common throw-away line. This group is really into the hard sell, and they
are EXTREMELY anal-retentive and leader-oriented. Everything is ordered
in excruciating detail, down to the separation between rows of chairs at
seminars ( no shit, I had to use a ruler to measure). Any question about
WHY something was done was met with a terse "because Werner said to do it
that way".

I decided to stop participating after they began pressuring me to take
the Six Day course. Six Days at a camp for intense further scrubbing of
your cranium. At this time, I was a student working two jobs. This course
cost over $1000 and I had none, so I had no intention of taking it, but
they insisted. They told me to get a job that would pay for it. I refused
to change my life plans to take this course, so I became a target for
constant recruitment. The same happened when I refused to sign up for a
further seminar. You see, to these people, when you stop participating it
means you are allowing all those negative thoughts you purged to influence
you again. You need them to keep you on the path to transformation. By
wanting out, you PROVE you need their help. Well, they called me every
single day for weeks. They would not even get off the phone, but would
just tell me about the breakthroughs waiting, and how they would help me
if they could, but they wouldn't accept no. They wouldn't get off the phone.
I had to hang up on them. They don't see social politeness as anything but
equivocation, which is seen as a desire for help. So if you don't like
being rude, they'll never leave you alone.

Now this was in 1986, recall. Is it still the same? Yes. A friend of
mine did the Landmark Forum this year, before I could talk to her about it.
She confirmed that the personality deconstruction is still used, although
it only takes 3 1/2 days now (friday-sunday, plus tuesday night). My step-
son attended one of the meetings at the request of a friend this year, and
he was disgusted by the shameless hard-sell. One of his friends was
actually told to take up a collection from the strangers in the room so he
could afford to sign up for the Forum.

A bit rambling, but hopefully it answers you question. As this question
seems to keep cropping up, I'll save this post for future reposts.


http://prevensectes.com/landmark9.htm


Dernière édition par Jean Langlois le Lun 3 Mar 2008 - 10:45, édité 1 fois
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Date d'inscription : 15/07/2006

MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:27

Citation :
Témoignages sur Landmark
Mis en ligne le 13 février 2004
------------------------------

"J'ai été très impliqué dans le programme "Landmark Education" comme responsable de programme et participant, ceci durant des années. J'ai cessé récemment toute participation après quelques expériences très négatives lors de séances d'entrainement avec des responsables de programmes "senior" décidés à me faire progresser pour que je sois efficace dans la façon que j'ai de faire découvrir le Forum à mes proches et lors de réunions. Malheureusement, comme beaucoup d'autres, j'ai dû faire moi-même l'expérience que ce qui constituait le passé déplaisant de cette organisation n'avait pas disparu. J'ai expérimenté cela moi même, l'intérieur pouri et glauque de cette organisation. Les gens sont rabaissés, cassés, niés, et renvoyés pour avoir exprimé un point de vue qui ne correspond pas avec les "distinctions". Un jour, vous êtes porté aux nues pour avoir obtenu l'inscription de trois personnes sur cinq, mais le jour suivant, vous êtes le dernier des derniers parce que personne dans la pièce ne s'est incrit. J'ai résolument pris l'option de surmonter toutes ces expériences négatives, anhihilantes et destructrices et j'aspire à avancer en tant qu'individu grâce au cercle étroit familial et amical qui me soutient."

http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:30

Citation :
"The hook for me was the trust in my new girlfriend"
April, 2006
By Someone that registered for the Forum

http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark215.html

Landmark Education is still going strong, even in this day and age of technology and enlightenment.
I was persuaded to go to an introductory session in Massachusetts this spring by a girl I was dating who gushed positively about the "Forum" and its' breakthrough effect on her. She had volunteered through the weekend for the seminar and we attended the follow-up graduation session.
Even though I'm cynical and questioning by nature I have to admit it was a very persuasive presentation and they convinced me to sign up for the next seminar and put down a $100 deposit.
About 300 people filled the room, all very positive, smiling, and confident. A speaker began by reassuring us that our hesitation was normal then proceeded to respond to most of the thoughts in my head, like who attends these things?
The hook for me was the trust in my new girlfriend who brought me to the session.
At various times in the talk we were told to turn to the person who brought us and discuss why they brought us here and what they had gained.
I was completely disarmed and open to the idea of improving my life.
But the whole time bells were going off in my head.
Why did they want us to sign up so quickly?
Who was the organization that was behind this seminar?
Why did my girlfriend and 30 others volunteer their weekend at no pay to a for-profit business?
Why were all the pens lined up perfectly?
Why did the doors close exactly at 7:30 PM when the session started?
Where weren't there windows in the rooms? Why wasn't food provided?
Why were the sessions so long with so few breaks?
I dutifully signed up and noticed the dissatisfaction in the registrar's face when I couldn't think of anyone else to bring to the session. In fact by the end of the evening I decided my brother should come with me and was wondering how to convince him.
We split into groups and I sat next to a fellow whose main problem was financial, he was heavily indebted and couldn't pay his bills on time. I wondered why he was paying $425.00 to Landmark Education when his problems were financial.
I asked why the course was so expensive?
The response was, "How much would you pay to get your life back"?
Driving home I felt content and confident that I could now face some of my problems. I was inspired by the first guy, a CEO who had quit his job Monday after attending the weekend seminar. I was happy my girlfriend had reached out to me to offer this.
Then I went online to find out more and was shocked by what I read.
I found out about est, the precursor to the Landmark Education.
I read about Jack Rosenberg, a used car salesman who changed his name to Werner Erhard and started est, then sold the business to his brother who called it the Landmark Education.
I read about people making rash decisions after attending the seminars (like quitting their jobs on Monday following the seminar).
I read how Landmark Education has sued publishers that publish negative articles about it.
The next day I called Landmark Education and requested my deposit back. I told my girlfriend that I disagreed with the philosophy of the seminar and that I wasn't attacking her but I thought the seminar was a fraud.
She reacted by becoming very upset and said she couldn't trust me if I didn't agree with Landmarks' ideas.
The more she spoke the more I identified with what I had read about the group.
Our relationship is over, I'm trying to get my $100.00 deposit back, but I've still got my freedom to think freely and of my own free will.
I will also continue to work to improve my life and accept some of its' pain without the
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:34

Citation :
"Je veux juste que les autres soient conscient du risque pris"
(Source : http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html traduction I.L)

Mis en ligne le 11 février 2004
------------------------------

Chaque fois que je pense au mot "Landmark"ou "Le forum", j'ai un sentiment d'angoisse au creux de l'estomac.
Que s'est il passé ?

En août 2002, mon mari a participé au Forum. Le dimanche soir, il m'a téléphoné et nous avons eu une conversation incroyable.

Il m'a dit qu'il n'avait pas été "authentique", etc. etc.

Les semaines suivantes ont été encore plus incroyables. J'utilise ce mot "incroyable"dans le sens que ce que mon mari était en train de faire n'avait rien à voir avec l'homme que je connaissais depuis 20 ans. Souvenez-vous, le langage ne peut être mesuré, Cours Avancé.

Il avait contacté chaque membre de sa famille, ses amis, ses collègues et même d'anciens employeurs. Et à chacun d'entre eux, il a expliqué où et quand il n'a pas été authentique.

Notre propre affaire a commencé à battre de l'aile.

Ce qui a couronné le tout, c'est que sa soeur suivait le cours SELP. Et elle nous a impliqués et entraînés.

Mon mari a commencé à manquer de sommeil, perdre du poids, avoir la folie des grandeurs, de la paranoïa, des propos incohérents, des périodes de catatonie et une perte de sens critique.

La soeur de mon mari, qui nous avait fait découvrir Landmark, a finalement admis que ça ne marchait pas pour lui. Et elle a reconnu qu'il y avait quelque chose qui n'allait pas. Nous avons cherché l'aide de professionnels.

Cela a été une période très difficile pour nous. Je dois dire que la famille de mon mari nous a beaucoup soutenus durant cette période.

Je crois que Landmark agresse délibérement votre esprit et les gens deviennent souvent trop fanatiques.

Ils vous contrôlent dès que vous entrez dans cette pièce pour le Forum.

En regardant rétrospectivement ce qui s'est passé, tout semble évident.

J'ai suivi le Forum à l'automne et plus tard j'ai suivi un cours avancé, en dépit du fait que j'avais des doutes.

La pièce où nous nous trouvions ne recevait pas de lumière du jour, ce qui peut affecter le cerveau. Les trois jours furent ainsi. Durant 72 heures, votre horloge interne est déstabilisée et il en de même pour vos esprits.

J'ai pensé à entamer une action en justice contre Landmark. Mon raisonnement est que, si vous passez une radio, on vous parle du risque de radiation.

Mais avec le Forum Landmark, leur accord écrit vous baratine sur la santé mentale et décline tout responsabilité au cas où un problème mental découlerait de la participation au Forum

Nulle part, il n'est dit qu'il y a un risque de psychose

Ils soulignent bien qu'ils ne sont pas psychothérapeutes. Malgré tout, il me semble qu'ils touchent à des aspects de la vie personnelle des participants, aspects qui devraient être traités par des professionnels ayant une formation professionnelle adéquate.
Ils reconnaissent "qu'il y aura des demandes d'informations très précises quant à votre vie", qu'il est possible que vous ressentiez de l'enthousiasme, de l'excitation, de la joie, de la peine, de la douleur, etc. etc.
Mais tout ceci n'est pas assez précis.
Après tout, vous pouvez bien ressentir de telles émotions en regardant Forest Gump ou en lisant Anne of Green Gables. Alors que cela signifie-t-il ?
En fait, "des demandes d'informations très précises quant à votre vie", cela veut dire bien plus que cela.
Ce qu'ils ne décrivent pas en détail, c'est comment on va vous demander de revivre votre première expérience négative. Et si vous n'en avez pas une qui convient, on vous dit que vous n'êtes pas assez impliqué, vous êtes égoïste ou Dieu sait quoi.
Si les gens savaient à l'avance combien le Forum peut s'ingérer dans votre vie, beaucoup ne voudraient sans doute pas y participer.
La raison pour laquelle je n'ai pas entamé d'actions légales est que la santé de mon mari est ma première priorité. Et je ne pense pas qu'il serait sage pour nous de revenir sur tout cela. Cela réactiverait sans doute des émotions et des souvenirs douloureux.
Cela a vraiment été une expérience terrifiante. Mon époux a du s'arrêter de travailler et il a dû prendre des médicaments pour traiter la psychose. Le coût financier de tout cela nous a obligé à vendre certains de nos biens, comme des antiquités héritées de la famille, juste pour joindre les deux bouts.
Je veux juste que les autres sachent qu'il y a un risque à participer à de larges groupes de prise de conscience tel que Landmark.
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:37

Citation :
Mind Control
I went to Landmark with the recommendation of my brother and my father. I sat through the initial 'Recruitment'. It is a 3 hour session where you listen to one of their 'Leaders' for about an hour, and then they bring you into a different room in smaller groups with Landmark 'volunteers', one of which is the designated speaker.

The booklet I was given, and the questions that were asked didn't make much sense to me. I am not a dumb guy. They used phrases like 'Already Always Listening' and 'we propose the view that in all human endeavors, context is decisive.'
I am not familiar enough with mind control techniques to accuse them of brain washing, but I was put in a room and confused by what I considered to be nonsensical gibberish until I was mentally exhausted. Immediately after that I was approached by three 'volunteers' with the obvious intention of trying to get me to register. They told stories of hardships they overcame because of Landmark. These stories were sad, and I have genuine sympathy for what these people had to overcome.

That seems like it may be a method of mind control. Exhaust someones mental capacity, and then try to sell something from all angles, including a very cute 'volunteer', and a women suffering from an incurable illness since she was a very young child.

A lot of people seemed to be convinced that they were bettered by the whole experience. However, my brother and father can not explain how their lives have improved, nor can they explain the process used by Landmark that makes them feel this way.
That's my two cents.
Landmark Forum is a scam
I agree with Suzanne, Landmark Forum is a scam. If you accept everything they want you to , you deny everything you know. It is called brain washing. They even invent new meanings to words in the English Language. Ridiculous, and very arrogant. The only way they succeed is through clever marketing. Secretive and seductive, they control your every move.

If you disagree with them they say you have a strong suit, and if you debate them, they say you have a racket and if you have a problem, it is a story. Bottom line they just want your money. I know people who have spent in the tens of thousands there.

What a waste of time. Just listen to Dr. Laura on the radio for free, and all your relationship problems will be address in about 3 months. And if you think Dr. Laura is rough, try the strong arm tactics of the Forum.
Run away from anyone who tries to enroll you. Run!
Landmark not your ordinary education.
While it seems that Landmark is indeed a form of education, and I do not doubt that some constructive things are taught there, they do not behave like an ordinary educational institution.
There tactics seem very suspicious, and they employ rather strong-arm tactics to there 'followers'.

A very close freind of mine joined and very soon afterwards the coercive calls began. He asked very directly at first for me to join. I replied, after his description of the classes that it was not for me. Then he tried another approach: He was graduating from a course and wanted me to be present. However, during this ceremony, I would entreated to a sales pitch. I said no again. He then began acting not like the old freind I knew, but more like a hell-fire christian out for conversion. I had no doubt that they were putting him up to it, and he even admitted so. He mentioned some kind of quota he had to keep.

Anyway, he has spent untold thousands of dollars to join the courses, is deep in debt, and I cannot for the life of me see any positive difference landmark has made on him. You would probably be better to spend your money going back to college.
PROS AND CONS....
I never heard of Landmark Education, until a close friend entertained an introductory presentation in her home, by a Landmark employee.
I was amazed how a select group of friends could open up to the adversity occurring in there, as well as, ohter peoples lives. Very impressed!
At the end of the presentation, the Landmark employee, specified a three day (all day) and one week day presentations at a cost of $4??.00.
Oh-oh! RED FLAG popped in! Fortunately, with the very small group (potential Landmarkers), no takers.
We concurred, that an open conversation can occur within ourselves at no expense. It is a matter of, who will initiate family/friend get together
Not to say Landmark Education is a bad organization. But, I would be leery of an organization that offer the betterment of one's life for a price.
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:39

Citation :
----------
"Je viens juste de le faire et cela a été une expérience puissante, mais qui a été annulée par cette constante pression qu'il y a à devoir enroler d'autres personnes. Environ un tiers de la session de la série de séminaires était consacrée à cela. Il y avait un entrainement spécial pour devenir plus efficace à enroler les autres. J'ai osé me plaindre de cela, respectueusement et en privé. Alors un responsable du séminaire m'a appelé et m'a dit que ma participation était finie. Ils n'aiment pas les questions et peuvent toujours les retourner contre vous, en vous montrant combien cela est votre "racket". C'est vraiment dommage car il y a certaines choses utiles dans la formation. Mais c'est décidé, je ne donnerai plus d'argent à Landmark."
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"Merci pour le site. C'est un portail intéressant pour accéder à des informations sur de nombreuses organisations contestables, Landmark Education inclu. J'aurais aimé que votre site web existe avant que je ne perde mon temps et mon argent. Cela me rend malade de penser que j'ai soutenu financièrement une telle organisation."
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Votre site web a touché une corde sensible. Il y a plusieurs années, ma femme et moi avons suivi le Forum. Nous avions été invités par des amis proches et l'avons fait à leur insistance. Nous sommes restés assis à regarder ce qui se passait mais nous avons fait attention à en parler ensemble chaque soir. Après une séance où la plupart des gens se lamentaient et poussaient des cris stridents en se roulant par terre à la maniere d'une réunion religieuse "revival" du vieux sud*, nous avons remarqué que certains ne semblaient pas si touchés et nous nous sommes rapprochés d'eux. Il semble que le meilleur moyen pour survivre à une de ces manifestations est de se faire aussi petit que possible. Je crois que le Forum peut être dangereux pour les gens fragiles mentalement. Ma femme et moi avons eu la chance d'être ensemble et de trouver plus tard quelques personnes qui avaient "compris". Tout le monde souriait bêtement donc je me suis mis à sourire bêtement moi aussi, puis quelqu'un est venu et m'a félicité pour avoir réussi le Forum. Ça, c'était un avertissement. "
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"Merci pour les efforts que vous faites pour fournir des informations à propos de Landmark Education. Je viens juste de finir le Forum à Melbourne, Australie et leur logique défectueuse, leurs fausses techniques et l'absence complète d'honnêteté de ce "curriculum" m'ont vraiment gonflé.Malheureusement, je n'ai eu personne pour m'aider à faire le bilan. Je serais resté perdu et troublé avec mes doutes, mes questions et mes incertitudes mais dieu merci, il y a des informations valides comme celles que vous fournissez qui m'ont aidé à voir que tout cela n'était que des conneries."
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"J'ai failli me faire avoir. Ma petite amie en parlait toujours de façon très attractive mais quand je lui ai demandé des précisions, elle a été incapable de m'en donner. Il semble qu'elle était vraiment aspirée par tout le groupe de soutien, bien qu'elle ait affirmé ne pas avoir fait un séminaire depuis au moins un an. En tout cas, elle aimait être avec des diplômés (Landmark) car ils sont si "puissants". Mon expérience avec Lifespring 20 ans auparavant m'a rendu un peu méfiant. Quand je lui ai parlé de Lifespring, mon amie m'a dit que c'était sans doute différent. Mais les diplômés de Lifespring avec le même genre de jargon, d'approche émotionnelle, la même organisation de leur salle de réunion avec un horaire très précis, qui semblent conçus pour briser vos barrières/ défenses. Pourquoi y a t il autant de gens pour penser que cela est génial ?"
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"J'ai suivi le Forum il y a 8 ans sur les encouragements d'un ami et aussi parce que j'avais vu chez lui des changements positifs après qu'il ait suivi le cours avancé. J'y ai trouvé quelques informations utiles mais je n'ai pas expérimenté un "changement de vie" comme mon ami. À la remise des diplômes, j'ai refusé de m'inscrire au cours avancé, en dépit de très fortes presssions de la part des volontaires. Je n'ai jamais regretté d'avoir laissé tomber Landmark. "
---------
"J'ai suivi le Forum Landmark. Mon responsable au Forum m'a dit qu'il n'était pas possible de comprendre tout sans faire leurs exercices. Quoiqu'il en soit, il est évident que la sagesse qu'ils essayent de transmettre peut être trouvée de bien des façons. Malheureusement, beaucoup de gens ne seront pas capables de comprendre cela. Landmark est essentiellement animé par des volontaires et très peu de personnel est payé. Cela ressemble à un "racket" et il semble que son but final soit de retirer un bénéfice personnel plutôt que d'aider les autres."
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:41

Citation :

http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=9961

This is my story:

LANDMARK MEMBER DESTROYED MY RELATIONSHIP with my boyfriend and could be possibly destroying him, without him realizing it,,,

My b/f of 5 years, left to Europe this summer to visit his family,, during his stay, he chatted with a 31 yr old woman over the internet from Canada, 1 week later he left me out of the blue, 3 weeks later this woman flew to Europe to see him, then 2 weeks later, they took the plane together back to Canada and he moved in with her,,,He gave up his apartment to do this,,,, two weeks ago, I received a phone-call from him, he was at a Landmark Senimar that was being held in Toronto,, he called me on the 3rd day of the seminar, requesting to see me in the coming week, for he had so much to talk to me about,,,, we had agreed to meet,, but something came up and I couldn't meet him,, I looked up the profile of this woman,,,, she is a follower of Landmark Education,,, and by reading many of the sites, I have noticed that her profile contained much jargon from Landmark,,,,, Creating Possibilites,, Living the life I love,, etc

He is 23 years old,, he is financially supported by his parents (that are well off) but that live in Europe (so no supervision from them),,,, He is a very naive person, not much experience in life,, trusts people easily (especially women that give him attention),, low self-esteem,,,not solid on his feet,, knows no one except for me here in Canada,, finishing his Masters in Finance this year at a Montreal University,,, through her he was offered to work in January,, something he would of never done before, for he has two thesis to finish and important year of school,,,,He doesn't need more money, what he is receiving is more than sufficient,,, He started his immigration papers too,, which worries me,, for you need someone to sign for you, to be responsable of you for the next 10 years,,, he has only known this person personally since August 1st,,,,and been living with her since August 15,,,, if he makes her sign, which is a huge possibility, they will be forceably connected and linked together because of that contract,,,, All in all he was a perfect target for recruit,,,,

He was introduced to Landmark by his new girlfriend,,,

- Did she recruit him off the internet and is now using him because of the money she knows he can get from his parents??? Do Landmark members do this????

- Can this totally destroy who he was and who he is?

- Should I write his parents and advise them on what I know???

- I have sent him several links stating that it is dangerous, that it is a cult/secte,, that its after his money,, that it will brainwash him,,, he refused to acknowledge that, and said that he went only out of curiousity,,,, I read in different sites that Landmark forces you to call people that you did harm to,, he did exactly that,,,,,, WHAT DO I DO ????? He is living with someone that lives and breathes Landmark,, all along he is thinking that this person loves him,,,could be possible, afterall she is a human,,, but sending someone you just met to Landmark, is what threw me off,,, he had mentioned to me, via email in August, that he was going to take some communication courses in September,, never did I think it would be this, so I really had no second thoughs,,, so that means,, 2 weeks after they met, his seminar was already booked,,, strange!!!!!

I deeply care for him and I am very worried about him,,,, I don't want his parents to think that I am putting my nose into their son's new love life, but at first, the speed of the events worried me,, but now that I know further that it could be just a cult recruit from her part,, really put up so many red flags to me,,,, and him being in a country with no other contact but me (and I am sure she knows that) worries me terribly, that all he will be surround by are other Landmark members brainwashing him into all kinds of things,,, I'm the only source that can get talk to his parents about this here,,,

Do I just let it go, and let him handle this by himself and learn out of this experience, whether it will cost him or not???,,, Do I warn his parents anyways and risk having them or him say, that I am a complete lunatic and jealous girlfreind????

I would hate to know,, that everything I read negative about Landmark, that it is truly a cult/sect is true and that I did nothing about it,,,,, Am I worrying for nothing??

What do you people recommend??? Any french sites you know of that I can send his parents???? Anyone out there had experiences with Landmark members?? Had a Landmark girlfriend or boyfriend?????
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:43

Citation :
J'ai assisté à une soirée de recrutement à Montréal, Québec
Mars 2007
Au début de la soirée, on me dit que je suis déja puissante, un monsieur en question me dit : "imaginez après l'expérience Landmark ...!"
Voici la scène : Le moment assise dans une salle où les chaises sont entassées comme des sardines avec les portes fermées. J'ai tout de suite senti un incomfort m'envahir.
Premier exercice :
Expliquer les domaines où ta vie va bien; maintenant, expliquer où ça va moins bien; ensuite partager avec le groupe votre problème. Donc je me lève tout de suite sans hésiter et je vulgarise mon problème avec beaucoup d'aisance ! Le preacher était extrêment surpris de mon courage car je suis une invitée ! Même les gens près de moi m'explique que je suis impressionante .... Ma réponse : Je suis ici pour faire une différence ... pourquoi attendre 3 mois pour vous le dire !
Première pause; on me harcèle de m'inscrire car j'ai du talent. Blablabla ...
Pendant 3 heures d'exercise, je suis fatiguée et j'ai la tête dans les nuages ....
Le moment de vérité !!!!!
Je ne sais plus quoi penser de mon être et après je me sens moins en contrôle ....
On insiste toujours et je décide de m'inscrire. On me donne un contrat à signer pour le prochain séminaire de 590$. Je dépose 30$ et j'apporte le contrat chez moi non signé.
Aujourd'hui, le 14 mars 2007 je décide de vraiment lire point par point le contrat. Je suis complètement renversée du document. Voici les détails qui m'ont complétement choquée !
• RENSEIGNEMENTS IMPORTANTS ET AVERTISSEMENTS CONCERNANT VOTRE ÉTAT DE SANTÉ
• Si vous n'êtes pas disposé à éprouver ces sentiments de haine, colère, crainte, tristesse, regrets, irritabilité et impatience ou risque de provoquer des émotions du passé.
• D'autres personnes pourraient trouver le programme physiquement, mentalement et émotionnellement très éprouvant. Même ces personnes même un stress normal, peu importe la cause peut occasionner de sévères problèmes sur le plan émotif, psychique ou physique. Nos conseillers recommandent fortement de ne pas participer au programme à ces personnes.
• Le programme est conçu pour les personnes qui comprennent clairement qu'elles sont responsables de leur santé et bien-être, avant, pendant et après le programme.
Au total il y a 12 points avec des jeux de mots à endormir les gens.
Résumé :
Ça dit clairement :
"Quand vous sortez du cours vous risquez de devenir fou et nous ne sommes pas responsables !? "
De plus vous allez revenir aux séminaires ... On va donc vous encourager à devenir fou ... Lorsque vous allez être toute seule à la maison avec ces paroles de lavage de cerveau, ils seront en train de remplir leurs poches de cash$$$$$$. Gang de ... !
Donc, venez en grands (nombreux. ndlr) et devenez fous !!!
Sauvez votre âme et ne vous présentez plus à ces réunions de sabotage .....
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:45

Citation :
When it comes to Landmark Education Corporation, There's no meeting of the Minds.
Westword / April 18-24, 1996
By Steve Jackson
http://www.caic.org.au/psyther/landmark/landmark6.htm
Walter Plywaski placed the blue yarmulke on his head. A Jew by ethnicity but an atheist by choice, he rarely wore the symbol of faith.

But it seemed important now, as he stood near a mass burial site for Jews murdered at what had once been the Riederloh "punishment" camp in Germany. Somewhere beneath the stone markers, he believed, were the remains of the father he'd seen beaten to death for cursing an SS commandant in January 1945.

Fifty years later, Plywaski turned to look at his youngest daughter, whom he had brought to this place. He had hoped it would give her a better understanding of what happens when individuals start thinking of themselves as a group, when they become true believers in a cause. He had only just rescued her from another group of true believers back home in Colorado.

It was known as Landmark Education corporation and was one of those "self-empowerment" organizations that promised a rich a full life in exchange for adopting a certain way of looking at the world. Plywaski's daughter had taken one of Landmark's seminars, then another, then another. She had dropped out of the University of Colorado, spent money she didn't have and begun to talk like some member of a secret club, using phrases only "insiders" could understand. Everything was Landmark, Landmark, Landmark. She spent all her free time there: recruiting, helping at seminars, coaching neophytes.

For a year she'd badgered friends and family alike to sign up for the introductory course called The Forum. And at last Plywaski had agreed to go.

It had been just what he expected: carefully constructed salesmanship whose main purpose, as he saw it, was generating new membership and which sold itself with commonsense advice like "Don't blame the world for your troubles."

He recognized the sales techniques from his post-WWII days selling pots and pans - really companionship and sympathetic ear - to lonely young American women. And the audience ate it up, he thought, like the people he'd seen at tent revival meetings in the South during the Fifties. True believers speaking in tongues, handling snakes, writhing on the floor as the preacher screamed. "Do you SEE Jesus? Reach out for JESUS! REACH out for Jesus!" Only at "The Forum, it was "Do you get IT? Do you want to live a LIFE of POSSIBILITIES?"

The preacher had predicted eternal damnation and everlasting torment for sinners who refused to change their ways. The Forum trainer promised that participants would remain in the same old ruts that had brought them to the seminar in the first place unless they underwent "transformation."

Although he admired the salesmanship. Plywaski was alarmed at the ease with which more than 200 individuals began thinking, reacting, even laughing and clapping, as a group. True believers.
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:46

Citation :
Mis en ligne le 17 février 2004
------------------------------
" J'ai perdu ma meilleure amie ". Novembre 2001. par l'ancienne amie d'une stagiaire du Forum.
Ma meilleure amie avait assisté à un Forum Landmark sur les recommandations de sa mère. Je n'en avais jamais entendu parler et elle ne m'avait pas vraiment expliqué ce dont il s'agissait. Cela était déjà peut-être en soi une sorte d'alerte. Je lui avais souhaité bonne chance en espérant que cela lui serait utile.
Quelques jours après, mon amie vint me voir à l'université avec des larmes dans les yeux, s'excusant de n'avoir pas été une bonne amie, parce qu'elle pensait que je ne l'aimais pas. Elle ajouté " mais à présent je sais que tu m'aimes ". Auparavant elle ne se serait pas assez aimé elle-même pour le réaliser. Tout cela était plutôt curieux puisque nous avions avant passé d'excellents moments ensemble. Elle avait toujours été une amie merveilleuse ; mais j'ai accepté ses " excuses ". Le jour suivant, elle m'invita à participer à une session d'introduction au Forum. Cette soirée aurait pu s'intituler " la nuit de présentation des cobayes potentiels ". Elle ajouta que le Forum ne se formaliserait pas de ma présence. Sur place, les gens de Landmark quémandaient ouvertement une cotisation aux arrivants, ce que j'ai considéré d'entrée comme un problème. Ils auraient du être moins concernés par l'argent. J'ai un budget d'étudiante à l'université et je n'avais pas l'intention de payer . Les dirigeants me donnèrent l'impression que si je ne m'engageais pas cette nuit même, toute ma vie en serait détruite. Lorsque j'ai expliqué que les week-ends du Forum n'étaient pas compatibles avec mes cours d'université, ils m'ont suggéré de changer ma programmation de mes cours ! Même si je n'étais qu'une amie venue à " la nuit de présentation d'un ami ", ils voulurent me faire remplir une fiche signalétique avec mon numéro de téléphone, adresse e-mail etc.…
J'ai expliqué à mon amie que je n'étais pas intéressée. Elle ne fut pas contente mais admit que c'était ma décision. J'ai pensé que ça aller s'arrêter là mais comme elle poursuivit sa formation chez Landmark, le sujet revint dans nos conversations. Elle me parla de " rackets " et de " percées " comme tous ceux de Landmark. Elle disait aussi " je vois tellement de potentiel en toi ". Encore et encore, mon amie me demandait d'envisager d'y revenir, proposant de payer elle-même mon adhésion au Forum.
Finalement, après des mois de ce manège, je lui ai demandé poliment d'arrêter de me harceler à ce sujet. Je lui ai qu'elle pouvait m'expliquer en quoi le Forum lui apportait une aide mais qu'elle veuille bien arrêter de me rabâcher comment je devais moi -même y adhérer et les rejoindre. Ce fut le début de la fin de notre amitié.
Je ne pense pas que le Forum ait vraiment aidé mon amie en quoi que ce soit. Nous avons encore une peu parlé ensemble après ça mais je faisais surtout la conversation toute seule. Puis, un jour, je lui ai téléphoné, son répondeur ne s'est pas déclenché et j'ai pensé qu'il était peut-être en panne. En fait, elle avait changé d'appartement et n'en avais rien dit à personne depuis des semaines, ni à moi, ni à ses autres amis. Est-ce ce genre de comportement qu'ils lui ont enseigné ? Chaque fois que je la croise à présent, elle m'ignore totalement comme si elle ne m'avait jamais connue.
Je considère que c'est la faute du Forum Landmark d'avoir détruit notre amitié. Tout allait parfaitement bien entre nous jusqu'à la nuit où je l'ai accompagnée à cette réunion d'introduction. J'étais tombée dans un piège et j'en suis sortie. Elle clame que le Forum lui a permis de résoudre ses problèmes et d'améliorer ses relations à autrui. Si cela étai vrai, alors pourquoi n'a t-elle pas admis ma décision de ne pas me joindre au Forum et pourquoi a-t-elle déménagé sans rien en dire ?
La triste réalité est plutôt que j'ai perdu ma meilleure amie.
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Mer 27 Fév 2008 - 12:48

Citation :
Cults and Psychological Abuse
My Experience in the Forum
James B. Endres
http://www.caic.org.au/psyther/landmark/foot2#foot2
This article is taken from remarks -- considerably expanded -- that I delivered as a panel member at a discussion called "Cults and Psychological Abuse" on 30 October 1992 at Western Psychiatric Institute in Pittsburgh. The presentation was led by Dr. Paul Martin, an internationally recognized authority on cults and cult rehabilitation, and a former cult member himself.
Let me begin by thanking Western Psychiatric Institute for this opportunity to raise awareness within the mental health community about cult-related issues. Unfortunately, the mental health professionals that I have encountered -- with the exception of Dr. Martin -- have not had the information necessary to deal with the serious and growing problem of cults, mind control, and cult-related psychological issues, so this discussion is a welcome opportunity, and I am grateful to be able to participate.
One other opening remark: because I only have a few minutes, I can only give a broad outline of my experience, and some of the claims I make might seem to lack context or even sound unbelievable. "How did such a normal-looking person get brainwashed?" Please feel free to pin me down on any questions later.
I Was in a Cult
I was in a cult called the Forum -- formerly known as est -- that presents itself as a spiritually and psychologically neutral "human potential" seminar. The Forum is offered by a company called Werner Erhard and Associates, led by Werner Erhard -- real name Jack Rosenberg -- a shady self-made human potential guru with a criminal record. The scandal-plagued Hunger Project is another est/Forum spinoff. Other fronts include the Education Project, Transformational Technologies, and others. …..
Besides being, substantively, little more than new-age pop-psychology mumbo jumbo, the Forum seminar itself is, from a mental health standpoint, reckless and destructive. Forum leaders employ confrontational and abusive tactics, group hypnosis, and regression exercises, all in a completely closed environment with participants that have not had enough food or sleep. The Forum leaders have no mental health training, except in the purposely destructive techniques taught to them by Erhard.
………… 1989. I was eighteen.
I did the Forum that summer, right here in Pittsburgh. During that time and afterwards I was abused and violated by the leaders and other members of the group, and I have many painful memories. The goal, from the leaders' point of view, is to break the participants down so that they can build them back up, partially, with what amounts to a new personality. They do this mostly through generating cognitive dissonance and convincing people that they are worthless; this latter goal is achieved through, among other ways, confession. I saw tearful adults telling a roomful of seventy strangers about childhood sexual abuse, incidents where they were almost murdered -- or almost murdered a loved one, all manner of deepest, darkest secrets and fears. I confessed -- standing in front of everyone and talking into a microphone -- all manner of my own dark secrets. I remember crying uncontrollably. And I remember the ecstasy I felt and saw on others' faces when, after we had hit the bottom, the leader gave us the answer to the end of our miseries: surrender to the ideas and authority of the Forum.
When I returned to Painesville and thought things over, however, I began to realize that I had been sold a bill of goods. The entire experience had left a bad taste in my mouth, and I just decided to forget about it and get on with my life. But there was one problem: I had agreed to move in with Mark and another guy, Jonathan, who was even more deeply involved with the Forum.
I was worried that they would pressure me to return to "the work," as they call it, but figured I could take care of myself. But within a few weeks of living with them, I was persuaded to come back into the fold. Soon I was enrolled in a seminar.
My schoolwork was suffering, and I was depressed. Mark, Jonathan, and I ate, drank and slept the Forum. We didn't speak English; we spoke Forum jargon. All the instruments of control had been in place for months now, and Mark and Jonathan new exactly how to push all the buttons.
Exit
In a few months I came to the dim realization that something was really wrong. After a lot of anguish, I decided that I was going to quit the seminar I was enrolled in and have nothing to do with the Forum anymore. It was an extremely difficult and painful decision, but I felt better after resolving to do it.
I have never been put under the kind of pressure I endured when I tried to leave the group. Both roommates pressured me intensely. The seminar leader called me twice a day, wouldn't let me get off the phone, and made me feel like dirt. She left me in tears more than once. I was terribly depressed. After a few days, I caved in. I went back to the seminar.
I must tell you that it is quite painful for me to remember the public confession of apostasy that followed, or the hollow shower of love that it was rewarded with. But I was back -- this time, I thought, for good.
At that moment, I was Winston in the last paragraph of Nineteen Eighty-four.
Only a couple weeks later, something amazing happened. A TA of mine, Fritz Knabe, gave a talk on campus about his experiences in a cult. Fritz had been in Lifespring, essentially a sister group of the
Forum, had been through exit counseling, and was now trying to help educate people on the dangers of cults. I read an article in the student newspaper about the talk and was stunned. Here was a guy that I knew and trusted, who had been involved with something exactly like what I was in! All my doubts and fears had been confirmed in black and white. I rushed to his office, and told him my concerns. "The Forum is a destructive cult," I will never forget him saying, "and you have to get out." But, Fritz, I live with two guys even deeper in than me! "Then you have to move out of that apartment."
Two nights later, I snuck my stuff out of the apartment and hastily moved into a dorm room that another friend had pulled strings to get me. I just walked away from what had become the overriding force in my life. And I went bonkers. My eighteen-year winning streak came to a crashing halt. It was April, 1990.
I had some idea of what had happened to me. Fritz was no exit counselor, but he could tell me some things about what they had really done in the Forum. Enough to make me feel extremely betrayed and violated, but not enough to help me heal.
I stayed up all night, staying awake as long as I could so that I could put off the nightmares. I slept all day with the shades pulled down, locked in my room. I couldn't go outside the room during the day. What if I saw someone from the Forum? There were literally dozens of students, faculty and staff at CMU at the time who had been involved; some were classmates, some were co-workers; even one of the therapists at the student counseling center had done the Forum. I remember feeling so scared, so confused, so violated, so horrible about myself and what had happened to me that I just lied in bed, twitching.
I basically stopped going to classes and seeing all but a few friends. Thankfully, I had been involved with the campus newspaper and had other friends, some kind of social context and support network outside the Forum.
I dropped three classes, limped to the end of the semester and went home for the summer. Earlier that year I had been selected by CMU to be an exchange student to Keio University in Tokyo. So in the summer of 1990 I flew to Japan, hoping that I had left my cult-related problems behind me. And for a few months, I did really well, if only because I was spending all my cognitive energy just trying to survive, to assimilate my new environment and learn Japanese. School wasn't too hard, and my host family was great.
…………
Counseling Fails, Rehabiliation Works
I came back in the summer of 1991, and returned to CMU. Almost immediately, things began to go very badly. For the first time since I had gotten out of the cult, I had to face the pressures of life at CMU, and I couldn't handle it. Much of the mechanisms for dealing with life -- organization and self-discipline -- had been co-opted by Forum conditioning. And I had thrown the baby out with the bath water. I knew that I had to get help to put the pieces of my life back together.
First, I tried "conventional" therapy. As I've implied, I had rather negative experiences with "conventional" therapists, and since I feel the topic is so relevant to you here today I would like to go into a little detail.
I decided against a potential therapist after only a brief discussion, and spent one session with another. But the pattern was the same for both. …….
That approach failed because neither therapist knew about my particular problems. So, at Fritz' encouragement, I attended a Cult Awareness Network meeting where Dr. Martin spoke, and was able to talk to him briefly about my problems. From this encounter I was convinced that I needed exit counseling. I arranged for exit counseling followed by rehabilitation at Wellspring. That was December of 1991.
So there's a happy ending: Within a month after rehab I had a good job with a software development firm here in Pittsburgh and was responsible for the development of a major product. I slept well. I made new friends. I began reading again, voluminously. I regained my self-esteem. I am no longer depressed. This summer I spent two months hiking from Pittsburgh to Fort Wayne with a high-school friend.
Exit counseling -- and rehabilitation as practiced by Dr. Martin -- is not a miracle cure. In fact, I want to stress that I am not trying to plug Dr. Martin's brand of therapy -- in fact, no one would be more happy than me to see other Dr. Martins with some methodological and philosophical and geographic diversity; in short, choices. The sad truth is that someone who needs cult-specific therapy has no choice but to go to Dr. Martin.
So exit counseling is not a miracle cure. But in my case, my recovery was practically immediate, because in my case the problem was my cult experience in the Forum -- not a dysfunctional family, not an Oedipal complex, not congenital neurochemical imbalances -- a very specific, isolated set of events that responded extremely well to specific treatment. Just understanding what had happened to me was crucial, and ultimately sufficient, to my recovery. Just knowing that others from all walks of life -- but more importantly, others just like me -- had been through the same experience and had survived, often under worse circumstances, was a huge help. Basically, that's all exit counseling is: helping people understand the workings of the dynamics in which they were prisoner. Which is why it is so crucial that "mainstream" mental health professionals be educated about those dynamics.
References
All of the following are sources of huge amounts of valuable information. If you are interested in info on a specific group, request its file from CAN; please include $5.00 to cover reproduction and postage expenses. Dr. Martin focusses on treatment/rehabilitation issues.
Dr. Paul Martin
Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center
PO Box 67
Albany OH 45710
Cult Awareness Network (CAN) National Office
2421 West Pratt Blvd
Suite 1173
Chicago IL 60645
FOCUS (former cult-members' support group)
2567 Columbus Ave
Oceanside NJ 11572
Also, check out the following books. Lifton takes a theoretical approach, based on his research of victims of Chinese brainwashing after World War Two. Hassan gives a good overview of the issues, and a startling personal account. The recent Self article is a good overview, in this case of the "human potential" or "self-help" cults.
• Lifton, Robert Jay, MD. Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. The University of North Carolina Press, 1961,1989
• Hassan, Steven. Combatting Cult Mind Control
• "White Collar Cults: They Want Your Mind." Self, February1993.
Notes
Footnote 1. Please direct all correspondence in care of this magazine, or to jimmer@bawdy.slip.cs.cmu.edu.
Footnote 2. The public's most recent glimpse into Erhard's life came in a 1991 60 Minutes piece detailing, among other things, his abuse of his wife and children and proclamation -- to his inner circle -- "I am God." (I do not interperet such a statement as a religous one; rather, Erhard was overtly referring to his need for total domination.)
Footnote 3. When Erhard divorced one of his wives in the early eighties, she won the rights to a percentage the profits "from est"; therefore, Erhard changed the name to the Forum. Meanwhile, a name change was a good excuse to lower the intensity of the seminars and extremism of other activities.
Footnote 4. See Lifton, especially his eight criteria for mind control. Martin will provide information to anyone who is interested, including the materials/notes from this presentation. (See references, below.)
Footnote 5. Martin, the Cult Awareness Network, and other authorities define "cult" in terms of destructive recruitment and retention tactics and group dynamics, not ideology or theology. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, the late L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology, Jim Jones' People's Temple, and the now-infamous David Koresh's Branch Davidian are, obviously, examples of religious cults. Lyndon LaRouche's organization, and segments of this country's white supremacy movement are cults. Amway and other similar sales organizations have cultic aspects; some former members and analysts claim that Amway is a cult. In their own category are the "self-help" cults -- "white collar cults" (see February 1993 Self) -- including the Forum, John Hanley's Lifespring, John-Roger's (Life 101 and other recent best-sellers) Insight, and Anthony Robbins' (Awaken the Giant Within and other recent popular books) organization, and countless others with smaller audiences.
All of these examples follow Lifton's model (to varying degrees -- the less totalistic ones less so); each, again disregarding its particular (stated) worldviews, have more institutional/psychological similarities than differences. And these boundaries are fuzzy -- Moon's organization, which has literally hundreds of front groups and publishes the ultra-right Washington Times newspaper (Reagan publicly called it his favorite) and daughter publications, has a notorious political agenda.
Footnote 6. "Deprogramming" is now called "exit counseling", in an effort to distance it from the bad publicity -- often outright lies -- supplied by the cults about it. Exit counseling is always voluntary -- no one is ever forced into it. Some cults physically remove members from society, and families have been forced literally to kidnap their loved ones in order to simply gain access. But these (rare) "involuntary interventions" have nothing to do with the process of exit counseling.
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MessageSujet: Re: Landmark 3 Témoignages   Ven 21 Mar 2008 - 20:26

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